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New Car Sticky!

 
Xx3kgtxX
Enthusiast
Posts: 673
Joined: 03/06
Posted: 08/16/07 10:17 PM

Ok ive been trying to put something together as for a sticky so we can clear up the "good first car" and "make my toyota sentra fast" sort of posts. Heres what ive compiled. Correct me on stuff that im wrong about so i can type up a final draft and send it to DPI.

-Thanks

Finally got internet here in bumfuckegypt lol Heres the sticky i was writing up. Check over it and tell me if i need correcting some.. Not sure what the transam and z28 had in them so look over that part .. (on the bottom).



Ok we have tons of posts on these forums asking "What should i get for my first car" etc etc. Im making this thread to kind of lay out a general basis for what vehicles should be considered and what all should be considered when looking for a vehicle.

1. Drivetrain- You have 3 options on drivetrains when your looking for a vehicle.

FWD- Front Wheel Drive. This is highly reccomended AGAINST being used as a "tuning" platform and heres why: When you start off in a race aka "Launch" the laws of inertia play a role on your vehicle. "Energy in motion stays in motion" thus meaning your car thats sitting still or even at a rolling start wants to stay just like it is. Thus when you mash the gas to start your vehicle accelerating the weight is moved to your rear tires and thus creating less traction on your front tires. This results in a slower start and it being much harder to keep traction through the race depending on your power output.

RWD- Rear Wheel drive. Probably the most recommended drivetrain in racing. Results in less of a power loss and doesnt have near as much stress put on it as the AWD system. Same laws apply. The weight will be pushed to the back of your car and thus onto your rear wheels which are the drive wheels. (Also there is a MRWD. Mid mounted engine instead of the front mounted engine.) Results in approx a 15% drivetrain loss from your BHP.

AWD- All wheel drive. Definately the best for sticking off the line and having a great launch. On the downside of this though is 1. It adds extra weight to your vehicle secondly much more stress is put on your drive components than that of the rear wheel drive which increases your chance of breaking something. Also there is more drivetrain loss with this (18-20%).

2. Engine type- Forced Induction and Naturally aspirated

Forced Induction- Also referred to as "FI". When you hear this were talking about a vehicle that comes stock with a Turbocharger or a Supercharger. These are the most recommended when looking for your new platform. Easiest engines to push power out of and also most vehicles that come stock with a force induced engine come with stronger suspension, better breaks etc...

Naturally Aspirated- "NA". This is often seen in your every day hondas, acuras etc. Unless your running a v8 this platform isnt suggested. For starters its harder to push power out of cheaply compared to that of the Force induced engine. You would look at spending $1500 for picking up the same ammount of horsepower you could pick up for $50 in a forced induction engine.

3. Weight- Your car is only as fast as it is light!

Most people think that its all about horsepower. This isnt true. Sirscr0tum1's mr2 can outrun my 3000gt vr4 stock vs stock. Hes putting out around 250BHP and me 320BHP. I have 70 horsepower more than him yes but your lookin at that my car weighs about 1000lb more than his does. I did the math one day and mathmatically around 700lb=50 hp. Also with a heavier vehicle you get worse gas mileage as well as go through tires much much faster and handle worse.

Just a term you may see used and not be too sure what it is "BHP". That stands for break horsepower. This is the horsepower your engine is putting out at the flywheel before you measure in your drivetrain loss. A RWD car has about a 15% Drivetrain loss. An AWD car has about a 18-20% horsepower loss.

Cars to look into-

Mazda rx-7 turbo: Lightweight, RWD, Stock turbocharged 1.3L rotary
Toyota supra turbo: RWD, Stock twin turbocharged
Mustang Cobra:  RWD,Supercharged v8
3000gt vr4: AWD Twin turbocharged but heavy.
Eclipse GSX: AWD Turbocharged
Eclipse GST: FWD turbocharged. FWD is a huge downside but it beats alot of stuff
Volkswagon GTI: FWD turbocharged
Trans Am: RWD,Supercharged v8
Z28 camaro: RWD, Supercharged v8
Skyline GTR: AWD, Twin turbo
Galant Vr4: AWD, Turbocharged
Subaru Wrx Sti: AWD Turbocharged
Lancer Evo: AWD Turbocharged
Nissan 240sx: With engine swap- RWD Turbocharged
Nissan Silvia: Swapped engine- RWD Turbocharged
Nissan 300zx TT: RWD Twin Turbocharged

There are other cars out there that arnt stock turbocharged/supercharged but many people do turbo conversions on them:
Honda S2000
Infiniti G35
Nissan 350z  
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2003 Volkswagon Gti 20th Anniversary edition. New Clutch, Transmission, Timing belt and tensioners.  No mods yetXx3kgtxX

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sirscr0tum1
Guru
Posts: 1140
Joined: 04/07
Posted: 08/17/07 01:10 AM

First I want to say thx for leaving my car out of a recommended first car. Due to its drivetrain setup, short wheelbase and powerful engine, it is not a car for novice's.

But this would make a nice sticky.
I wanted to mention that any Naturally aspirated car that requires premium gas from the factory, will pretty much require a costly engine rebuild for forced induction if you plan on running more than 6-8psi, as lower compression engines are better built for boosting, which is why great boosting engines like the 4g63 and 3sgte come with 8.5:1 CR (depending on year of motor) and would run perfectly fine on regular gas w/o the turbo.

But cars that come with high compression stock, like your 350z's, any Honda DOHC vtec, or most NA car's with a high hp/liter ratio do not make good boosting motors as they often have 10.5:1 or more compression ratios. A miata though, with its 9.0:1 CR (Its either 9.0 or 9.5) makes a halfway decent car to boost from the factory, although aluminum blocked, since it runs on regular in stock form, you can easily add a turbo and then upgrade to premium gas to help prevent detonation as you turn up the boost. Always put in a good Intercooler on a turbo car, intercooling is cheap compared to ecu/fuel system upgrades and turbo upgrades and allows for you to get the most hp out of each psi.

Turbo I6's and v6's generally weigh in the 3400lb+ range, and therefore generally get around 16mpg city. Consider that you will be paying a lot more to drive this vehicle as a daily driver, when a turbo 4cylinder that weighs less than 3100lbs, will get 18-23mpg depending on its weight, which is not only a lot more economically/environmentally friendly, but just as fast as the big turbo 6cylinders or v8's due to not having to push near as much weight around.

Your math on the hp/weight ratio math was a bit confusing. Let me put it in simpler terms, if you start off with a lighter car, its easier to make fast, a motor is only as fast as its chassis is light. if you remove 100lbs from a 2500lb car, your taking %4 of weight off its curbweight, it will feel similar to a %4 increase in hp. If you take the same 100lbs off a 3300lb turbo I6, your only taking %3 of weight off the car, and it would feel similar to a %3 increase in hp on that car. Not to mention less weight makes for less wear and tear on components, tires, better gas mileage. Im always down for being more environmentally friendly and reducing my carbon footprint. The car will be more nimble too, as it will get off the line faster, and corner better as well.  

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vampii
New User
Posts: 8
Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/23/07 10:53 PM

This is very helpful.  Thank you both for sharing this info.  I am only 14 years old but am in to cars and dont know much about them.  This helped me quite a bit more on them.  Im deciding wether to get a starting out nice somewhat luxury car(how i look at them)...Lancer Evo, and 350Z OR getting a cheaper car and trying to supe it up and make it awesome :P(i dont know wich cars exactly are good for this).  Although i have no money i still like to pretend so one day when i do i will be able to do this. but i do get one deal with my parents<---"they wealthy", If i get all A's than i can get a car of my choice ^.^  Im not sure if they would let me supe up a car but i would try to. sorry i dont know how to spell supe.  But thank you both very much for this.  

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Xx3kgtxX
Enthusiast
Posts: 673
Joined: 03/06
Posted: 09/24/07 12:43 AM

Your welcome! And thanks for bumping the post up. And *** age doesnt matter. Get started early and learn as much as you can. Maybe buy a junker and work on it to get some mechanical experience.

As for the word "sup" If you ever find the correct way to spell it please let me know! Thats how i always have but who knows /shrug.

And the cost of fixing up some cars to be anything decent and stay able to be a daily driver is fairly hard.

And consider yourself lucky with that deal with your parents. Ive been working since i was 9 years old and paid for everything ive got myself. So make those A's! Also it pays off for college scholarships as well.

Most people on here and most adults and friends parents etc are all going to recommend for you to not get a quick car as your first car due to being new with learning how to drive on a daily basis etc. To me if you start out with a quick car and learn it. Your chances of hurting yourself are alot less likely than if you drove a 110hp honda and then went to a 500hp beast. But thats my own personal opinion. But ive had the opportunity to drive vehicles pushing 600+hp soon after having my drivers license. But been driving since i could touch the gas pedal.

If you have any doubt in your ability to drive i would- Buy a cheapo honda or something with your own money.. that runs.. doesnt have to go fast or look nice or anything and learn to drive around your neighborhood or on backroads.. or if your partents let your drive their cars that works too.  
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2003 Volkswagon Gti 20th Anniversary edition. New Clutch, Transmission, Timing belt and tensioners.  No mods yetXx3kgtxX

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vampii
New User
Posts: 8
Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/26/07 07:39 PM

*** 600+hp. Thats crazy

Yea, id say im decent at driving because ive driven around my neighborhood a couple of times and i got the hang of it... thats with no stop lights though, but speed bumps  

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Xx3kgtxX
Enthusiast
Posts: 673
Joined: 03/06
Posted: 09/26/07 08:48 PM

Yea just get the hang of daily driving such as your talking about driving around your neighborhood. Once your get your drivers license and drive on a daily basis you will kinda start to understand what i mean by "drive" That or i could take you for a ride in my new vr4Laugh.. just no pissing on the seats..  
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2003 Volkswagon Gti 20th Anniversary edition. New Clutch, Transmission, Timing belt and tensioners.  No mods yetXx3kgtxX

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vampii
New User
Posts: 8
Joined: 09/07
Posted: 09/27/07 03:21 PM

rofl  

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Weeeee
New User
Posts: 4
Joined: 10/07
Posted: 10/09/07 08:01 PM

so what would you think of a 1999 mistubishi eclipse for my first car cause im only 15, 16 soon  

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Xx3kgtxX
Enthusiast
Posts: 673
Joined: 03/06
Posted: 10/12/07 12:12 PM

As long as its a GSX or a GST yep would be great. Easy to work on, not too much power for a first car. Good gas mileage. Amazing tuning capability. So as long as its one of those 2 then yea itd be a great car. But if its something like the RS, GS  etc.. edition. No. Those are NA FWD..  the GSX is Turbo AWD and the GST is turbo FWD... FWD is kinda recommended against but they arnt too bad. Just hard to get them to hook up after they are too heavily modified.  
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2003 Volkswagon Gti 20th Anniversary edition. New Clutch, Transmission, Timing belt and tensioners.  No mods yetXx3kgtxX

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sirscr0tum1
Guru
Posts: 1140
Joined: 04/07
Posted: 10/12/07 09:39 PM

Actually, it takes next to nothing to make those things pull shitty 60fts, my bro's gst is mildly modded and still only musters a horrible 2.6 60ft, once he did a 3.1 too.  

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sayw0rdd
New User
Posts: 2
Joined: 10/07
Posted: 10/13/07 03:46 PM

how about a starting car as a used 94 acura integra LS?  

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repoman1
New User
Posts: 1
Joined: 10/07
Posted: 10/13/07 03:50 PM

Hey, If i were to buy a used 1997-1998 Nissan 240sx, i would swap the motor with an sr20det right?I dont want to go full out yet or anything becuase im new to tuning and all. I was thinking cold air, new exhaust/catback, stuff of that type. Would that be a good car to start?
thanks  

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Weeeee
New User
Posts: 4
Joined: 10/07
Posted: 10/14/07 12:15 AM

also im looking at a 2002+ audi A4 and wondering what ur guys' opinions on that are?  

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Xx3kgtxX
Enthusiast
Posts: 673
Joined: 03/06
Posted: 10/23/07 06:56 AM

Bump to the top. This needs to become an actuall stick >.<  
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2003 Volkswagon Gti 20th Anniversary edition. New Clutch, Transmission, Timing belt and tensioners.  No mods yetXx3kgtxX

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BennFussner
User
Posts: 227
Joined: 04/07
Posted: 10/23/07 07:27 AM

Icon QuoteXx3kgtxX:
Bump to the top. This needs to become an actuall stick >.<

Yah, why isn't this a sticky?  

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